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YEAH where is it?!

Hi,

Lente,

 I agree. I remember years ago I was reading some psychology book, which it stated that there were two types of people in the world, guilt throwers and guilt catchers. My Wife has always been the thrower and for a long time I've been the catcher, tho in the last year or two I seem
to have largely stepped away from this role, find these days I'm just so tired of playing any kind of inter-personal power games. These games make relationships profoundly unbalanced, tho the more dominant partner may think they're the best thing since sliced bread, the other partner just ends up feeling squashed and rather crummy. I've been through all of this kind of thing with her, tried very hard to see the effect of her behavior has on those close to her.
Even her sister has strongly suggested she go speak to someone, but until she realizes she has a problem...I may as well be talking to myself

I have to tell you steve Im no expert on relationships, but I think that you maybe past the time where you go and try to talk things out, I think you need to make a decision, do I want to continue this relationship this way or not? If its not then you need to walk the talk and leave her when see fails to make an effort for the last time.

I don't know if you have kids, that would make it all much harder.

Of course maybe you come to the decision, yes there is something wrong whit this relationship, but I rather have it this way than not at all.

In that case you will have to accept that she is the way she is, and continue to try to work things out.(which you might try and do in various creative ways) In this process you might want to look to yourself too, Im sure you have faults, and any spiritual person should become aware of himself, see keep that in mind too.

But since Im no expert it might me good for you to talk to someone who IS a expert.

[expression]

"An ocean has no waves."

Umm, perhaps you're not reading that correctly? My intent was to convey the idea that you CANNOT separate waves and the ocean. They are one and the same.

But waves are part of the ocean's creative process, they ARE the creative process, each as an individual expression of the process and all together as the sum total of the creative process. They do not exist apart from the ocean, thus they have no individual existance either each indivudually or all taken together. Without the ocean there is no waves but waves are just an expression of the change in the ocean total.

In my view, the dualistic separation comes into being the moment you say only that we are PARTS of some greater process.
I disagree that a part of the kind you describe (Such as consciousness) has any separate existence from everything else.

Our seeming disagreement appears to me to be the case in point of why words usually muddle understanding of ideas of this kind.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

Well I guess I misunderstood you, but now its your turn to misunderstand me it seems. I'm not saying there are parts that have in anyway an independent existence from the rest of consciousness, but I'm saying there are recognizable parts that hold a distinction from the rest of consciousness.(consciousness = everything, oneness, being, essence, tao etc) (a tree is a tree, and though it holds no independent existence from the rest of consciousness it is still recognizable as a tree)

Advaita is the philosophy of consciousness (everything is consciousness, which is oneness and not two), however advaita defines little of how consciousness really works, in that it falls short of being a integral consciousness philosophy. This being the way it is it is often that advaita underrates the creative involvement of the earthly persona, this being because it doesn't describe how it relates to the rest of consciousness, which leaves a gap between the understanding of the whole (consciousness) and the earthly persona (as we know it, which we don't much) in which the focus tilts towards the whole. This is my major critic of advaita.(and similar teachings)

but am I to understand that there IS a doer?

Yes, there is but the Doer is not an individual. It's more like the sum total of everything.
That's why I used the (like you said, rather vague analogue of waves and ocean).
The ocean is what does (the sum total) the doing and the waves (that's us) is an expression of that doing.
What a single wave or a single individual perceives as doing is just being and expressing what they are. Thus, as far as us the individuals are concerned there is no Doer.
Everything we do or don't do is just a reflection or an expression of what we are as a result of the ocean moving.

So there is both the doer and the non-doer and they are the same.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

Your distort the idea of no separation, you make it seem like we are just an effect of something greater, that we are not part of the creative process.  

Ironically your making a separation with this, by viewing the ocean and the waves as two different things, where there is actually just an ocean, there is just conscious. Conscious is made up by many parts, one of those parts is us, a integral creative part, with its own right to exist, its own little part in the doing.

I separate myself as consciousness from myself as personality because my personality is not me. It is a fabrication. It is not real. Therefore, there is no dual view of myself. Only one self, the universal mind. That which is always there. Every other part of the mind, which is always moving, is not who I am. Only that awareness that is ever present.
And that awareness is the same for everyone, which is why we are all one.

I do not agree for the reasons stated earlier and I don't see what the advantage is in thinking like this.

If there is no doer, why is there so much getting done?

"No doer" can be put into words using another analogue:

"An ocean has no waves."

If you think of that a bit you can see how it is true. Yet waves erode the beach, eat into the mountain and turn it into sand. Huge things happen and it all is because waves that aren't there keep pounding on a shore that, for them, is unknown.

The doer and the Non-doer are not seen and defined from the same perspective. Doer is you and I, the physical individuals, Non-doer is you and I as the wave in the ocean.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

I didnt entirely get what you wanted to say, because your being a little vague here, but am I to understand that there IS a doer?

Actually thinking like that is very practical and useful. It just reminds you that you are separate from your opinions and your personality.

It seems you follow non-duality teaching, but your making yourself into a dual entity. You separate yourself as consciousness from yourself as personality, creating a dual view of yourself. There is no separation, you cannot become what you already are, you can discover what you already are, but to do this you shouldn't devalue your earthly personality, because that is an important part of you to. That part of yourself makes it possible for you to live here.

Evil is a belief, just as the belief that you can control other people and cause them pain.

[you're dead!]

Hi,

Well she and I are pretty much complete opposites in most things, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. Shes one of the type that believes that when you're dead, you're dead! . That's fine by me I respect her views on the matter, tho she has been interested a little in buddhism recently.

MisterJingo,
               I've talked alot about phasing, etc, usually after about two minutes I get the flippant hand wave and the 'Whatever' comment, which esentially means 'I don't give a monkeys' what you think. For a long time now she gives out the impression that everything has to be done 'her way or it's the high-way'. She is unfortunately a very selfish person in many respects, is making everything within the realtioship very tiring. She even thinks that I'll be off sha**ing all the ladies in the astral, no I've not ever been unfaithful to her.

Lente,

Normally I'd agree with you, but having the sound of crashing tiles in the next room is asking a bit much really!

Tombo,
         She already knows this, still the interuptions continue. This is what I've been thinking over the last few months (Some more fundamental problems), which she refuses to address. We've already tried counciling, but she refuses to see any other point of view than her own.

What I guess it comes down to is that we both know we're opposites, even tho opposites attract, as the saying goes... They repulse too.

This has been going on in one form or another since we've been married (8 years), and as you might imagine...I'm just really freakin tired of it

Thanks for listening

S

p.s Nothing like airing your laundry in public, eh? LoL

Steve reading your story it seems to me that your phasing problem is the least of your problems, I think your need to have a serious talk with your partner about mutual consideration.

So, I've been working on 'knowing myself' and trying to 'eliminate' my ego.  I've been reading and researching and learning and doing all this stuff that I thought was very important to my 'growth'.

Then I read "A New Earth" by Eckhart Tolle.  He does a fantastic job of explaining the ego.  He does such a good job that I can't help but notice, in myself and others, when we are acting because of our higher selves, or when we are associated with our egos.

I've been observing this... a lot.  I don't know what to 'do' anymore.  If I'm doing anything, it's likely an ego motivated thing to do.  Like this post, for example...  I am complete right now.  I am perfect, my Atman.  But I THINK (that's my ego) that I need to know something else.

My dilemma is (as far as I can figure) that I've trained my ego to act a lot like my higher self.  When I'm trying to clear my mind, I have a thought telling me, "Be present... clear your thoughts... be here now..."  I'm not clearing my thoughts, but thinking thoughts about clearing my thoughts!!!  I feel as though I've painted myself into a corner...

Any help, anyone?

Thanks, everyone.

Actually your extremely dual view of yourself is what is causing the problem. You separate the ego from the higher self, but the two are not separate. That's why you don't really have worry about if you are acting as your ego or your higher self, because the two operate simultaneously and in harmony, even when you don't believe this. It might not look like this because you view your problems to be an indicator that you are acting as your ego, which is the cause of all problems in your belief. Especially the thinking aspect of the ego you view as problematic, but its really not the problem, though your obsessive concentration on your thought might be considered to be a issue. However the real problem is your non-acceptance of whatever is occurring in the moment, that's why you want things in the future, and because you concentrate upon your thinking these wants echo in your thinking, so its like "I want a bigger house!" or "I want this to stop" or in your case "I need to know something more" , these thoughts are indicators of non-acceptance, and non-acceptance disturbs your peace. The value of being in the now and observing whatever comes into your attention is that you will be able to reveal those beliefs that are causing your non-acceptance and deal with them, and ultimately accept them, thereby rendering them powerless.

What does it take to evolve yourself spiritually?

Nothing, spiritual evolution does not exist. Its just something people like to believe in.

Nothing is impossible, but somethings are so improbable that they wont happen.

Yes its a hypocritical world.

Are those all active members?

Yes talking would be good, if you have a good relation you should be able to work it out, but you could also try to block out outside distractions as practice.

If there is no doer, why is there so much getting done?

Edit: I decided to remove this post.

Lol. Thats stupid man. Its like the Christians saying they know God because they "feel" the holy spirit enters them. "Personal revelation"

Thats just personal spiritual crack.

It doesnt matter to me that you think its stupid.

Who needs proof, not the person who already knows for himself, only others need proof.

And you are not fooling yourself? How do you know your right? Take away your faith, your holy books, what remains of your logic then? Do you have any experience to base your logic on? If not, then you have even less basis for your logic then most people have here, they for the most part have at least some personal experience to backup their logic.

Of course reality is how you perceive it to be, which is not something you just change, its a difficult process, one that includes all aspects of yourself. And I bet that one of those of yours has a problem whit accepting new beliefs, that's why your play the missionary now, to convince yourself, to confirm what you believe. And why is that? Because maybe you feel threatened in you current beliefs? I wonder if you will seriously think about this.

Then what does it mean to live?

To experience.

[Do you belief any of the "you create your own reality" stuff? I mean all of it, total responsibility for your life, for your entire reality! Do you belief that?]

Do you belief any of the "you create your own reality" stuff? I mean all of it, total responsibility for your life, for your entire reality! Do you belief that?

Hi..!
I´m not sure but your excerpt has some to do with Reality Shift concept..?
ASLEGNAT

Yes I think so.

The meaning of life is to live.

If I got that far I would praise myself!

I knew this would happen. I think all men secretly harbor the desire to create a totally complient female who exists only to serve them.

Its the future, you cant stop it!