Goetia

[Nita]

Hello Everyone
  There seems to be posts missing from this thread but I will comment on a few things anyway. Anyone who enjoyed this discussion should read about duality and non-duality. I really believe they exist at the same time.
 Oazaki people do not subjugate themselves to God or any positive spirit. They praise him. All of the work being done is because we are on this earth and have to see what the difference is between good and evil. Anything we go through and learn will happen not to give us servitude to God but to teach us what we are about by our correct decisions. It also shows us what not to do by the incorrect decisions for us.
  It is why Satan is called adversary some people are more suited to his path. It is the path of the individual. The ones who are out for themselves and believe their personal power is all important. The ones suited to God or the All are working to join a unity where they will be joined together with everyone else working for the betterment of the human existence.They are a conduit of God and do things for the greater good. It is the difference between white and black magic. Contrary to popular belief. One source for this information is A treatise on White Magic by Alice Bailey. She is long winded but a worth while read as she has many gems of knowledge in her book.
  The goetia is a dangerous book especially for newcomers with out any control. Demons do what they want if they feel they can get away with it. The reason for this is their adversary position again.
  They fulfill their purpose by giving us a chance to bring out the best in ourselves. To know the difference between what right and wrong choices in our Path and our lives. They were created by God for this purpose. They can not evolve or change.
  I have noticed a lot of propaganda out there about evil lately. It is getting just as bad as people trying to convert others to good. All the comments about Lucifer, and spiritual satanism. Demons evolving and becoming good. I know some people may want to believe those things but I have experienced things first hand. I am not proselytizing or trying to change others. I do know what I will not do and that is the right decision for me. These are my personal views upon the subject but I do feel everyone should research these things and decide what they want to be instead of being guided into the wrong thing for them.
  Nita

[aryanknight666]

The goetia is dangerous if you are an idiot. Sadly, that is the case for most people here.
Look nita, if you have never had any experience with the goetia and goetic demons which is obvious, then you really can make no valid comments on it.
Just remember one thing: The demons are no longer bound or cursed. They are GODS. They have been freed from the wretched curses of the revolting parasite YAHWEH so mistreat them and you are inviting DISASTER and this is rightfully so because people who abuse spirits especially GODS deserve to be punished.
My recommendations to everyone is not to swallow the bovine excrement new age dogma or anything like that. Spiritual pipe dreams and pseudo-intellectualism are nothing compared to true experience. Don't listen to what anyone else says unless you are absolutely sure that is the truth, this is most easily determinable by your own experience.

[aryanknight666]

It is why Satan is called adversary some people are more suited to his path. It is the path of the individual. The ones who are out for themselves and believe their personal power is all important. The ones suited to God or the All are working to join a unity where they will be joined together with everyone else working for the betterment of the human existence.They are a conduit of God and do things for the greater good. It is the difference between white and black magic. Contrary to popular belief. One source for this information is A treatise on White Magic by Alice Bailey. She is long winded but a worth while read as she has many gems of knowledge in her book.
The goetia is a dangerous book especially for newcomers with out any control. Demons do what they want if they feel they can get away with it. The reason for this is their adversary position again.

Demons don't do what they want if they feel they can get away with it. Honour and ethics are very important to them. They are also very proud.
SATAN is a hebrew word which literally means Adversary. Satan is the adversary to the judea-christian 'god' yahweh/jehova and the angels. He is the adversary to enemy gods. The hebrews come from Egypt. In Egypt, SATA-N means 'snake' or 'serpent'. The snake or the serpent represented the egyptian God Ptah who was the sumerian God Enki. The garden of eden is taken from sumerian myth, its actually a literal place, in mesopatomia. It no longer exists anymore, as far as I know. In this place it is said in Sumerian myth Enki (represented by the serpent) advanced human beings, he gave them knowledge. His work was not finished.

Remember, Lucifer told Adam (Adappa) and Eve that if they ate from the fruit, they wouldn't die like yahweh said. They didn't die. Yahweh was a liar. For this, yahweh cast them away from the garden of eden. Never has there been a war fought in the name of Satan. Satan is meant to be a liar, betray and murderer. Yahweh fits the criteria for all three in his holy books. Satan doesn't.

[Nita]

Hello Arayan Knight
  I was trained as a Solomonic Ceremonial Magician in a large group in LA. I spent 12 years dealing with goetic demons by cleaning up the students mistakes. Yes I was a high ranker also.
  I have been dealing with demons, ghosts, and psychic vampires for 34 years now. I have seen physically manifested demons and some weird stuff no one ever believes. The reason why they do not want to believe it. I can truthfully say I have seen demons and what they do on a personal upfront basis.
  I have an informed opinion due to personal experience. I doubt any of you have met, summoned or dealt with as many demons and negative entities as I have in removing them from others.
    Nita

[Nita]

Hello Arayan Knight
  Now for the second comments. The bible has been rewritten so many times that no one knows what God really told Adam and Eve. I am sure Lucifer was twisting things and lying because that is what he is the Father of lies and also Lord of Flies.
  Demons have pride and ego. The problem is the pride and ego normally is about how much they can twist and say to make people believe them. I do feel that people should realize that demons can not give them anything that God and hard effort can not give them.
        Nita

[aryanknight666]

Hi there
Nita, if you are a christian (it would appear so) then how come you are involved with the occult?
Demons don't want you to come to them for everything, they would encourage hard work and effort. They don't want to have to run after just anyone's request especially if they don't know you.
Imagine if you were a being far more powerful then any human being and someone gives you a call. You've been cursed and they use this against you by using the names of the enemy gods who cursed you. They demand something from you and make a 'pact' with you. Would you react positivley? No. If you treat them like this, then you will get what you give in return, that is justice. You can't expect to treat anyone badly and have them just let you walk all over them.
The Goetic Demons are no longer under this curse. They now appear in their true form and are their true selves. If you summon them by drawing a protective pentagram on the floor and use magical weapons and enemy god names to insult and abuse them then there's nothing stopping them from breaking down the barrier and killing you. Now, from what I've heard of people treating them disrespectfully they don't kill just for this. This wouldn't neccesarily be the most honourable thing to do. They will do something about it though and it won't be nice. Of the cases I've heard of though, the disrespectful treatment was things like summoning them just for fun or a joke on halloween. This is only inviting disaster.
Since there is no curse on them they don't have to appear to anybody. They will come if they want to. In the aforementioned case the Demon probably came to deal with the individuals.
If you beleive that summoning demons is nothing more then calling up archetypes and thoughtforms, then there is a good chance you will get what you want. You won't call up Demons at all, but archetypes and thoughtforms (Demons are not this).
Demons don't want to be summoned by Right Hand Path magicians!
They are there to help people from the Left Hand Path if they want to.
Unless they are busy or for some reason cannot show, they will basically always respond to a Dedicated Satanist (A Satanist who has done a Dedication Ritual) if they are called upon. And a Dedicated Satanist DOES NOT use enemy god names, magical weapons, protective pentagrams and circles and they do not use pacts.

[aryanknight666]

Hello Arayan Knight
Now for the second comments. The bible has been rewritten so many times that no one knows what God really told Adam and Eve. I am sure Lucifer was twisting things and lying because that is what he is the Father of lies and also Lord of Flies.
Demons have pride and ego. The problem is the pride and ego normally is about how much they can twist and say to make people believe them. I do feel that people should realize that demons can not give them anything that God and hard effort can not give them.
Nita

If you want to then you can read the hebrew versions of the Torah.
Yahweh still told adam and eve that they would die if they ate from the tree of knowledge. It does not mention the serpent as Lucifer or Sammael as the hebrews called him, but neither does the christian bible. It calls him SATAN, that means adversary. In egyptian, SATA-N means serpent or snake. The serpent or snake is seen all over egypt and represents the God Ptah. The hebrews word for 'adversary' was the serpent or snake because this image of the serpent or snake which represented Ptah and Egypt was their great adversary. Ptah is the sumerian god ENKI. Hebrew mythology is taken or stolen if you may from sumerian myth except twisted around a little bit. The story of the deluge is taken from the epic of gilgamesh. And the story of adam and eve and the serpent is taken from a tale where ENKI represented by the serpent comes to adappa and eve in the garden of eden to advance his children. Another God does not want them to have knowledge or power, and he doesn't want them to become as Gods like ENKI does.
The serpent in the garden of eden in hebrew mythology speaks and acts like an intelligent being. It is obvious that this serpent is metaphorical, and this is also a tale of how the serpent lost its legs. The serpent represents many thing but does the kundalini energy (thats the tantric word for it) which rests at the base of the spine but ascends and the beholder acheives Godhead. If a serpent has legs it can easily climb up something. ENKI wanted humans to become as Gods, just like he and the others.
Nothing that the Demons or the Gods can give to people can jehova give to people.
All jehova does is order to stone to death anyone who exhibits any supernatural ability. He condemns the supernatural, the occult, sorcery and psychic phenomona and forbids his followers to have any of it.

[Nita]

Hello Arayan Knight
  God is non-denominational and has many faces or names. What you say about demons is incorrect if you are using the Goetia. You say two things at once if you compare your prior messages.
  What I believe in as a religion is not up for discussion. It was do I know about demons. I do and let us hear about your qualifications. How much experience do you have, how many have you dealt with, and what makes you feel you are an expert. It is not about philosophy I am talking real life experience.
  Nita

[Legend]

hell... u do impress me with your speech oazaki... but i just cant even begin to think of god as someone who wants to keep us in bondage and deny us knowledge. true i am new to magick but i do know some thing ( however meagre it is ) regarding the good and bad. i think there is some truth in what nita says.
i just dont know how to put all i feel in to words.
but the basic point is to think of god as someone who doesnt wish us good is absurd.

okkk i have more queries...
has anyone out here has personally tried to evoke any spirits. can u tell me of ur experience?? I searched the net. There are a lot of material to help me invoke those goetic spirits but literally none to familiarize my self with the good spirits or elementals. How do I invoke them and how do I talk to them. I guess elementals are pretty good in nature so I thought maybe I will try to evoke them first...
Hey I read some of ur entries in other forums as well
Tell me guys will the spirits simply grant me wishes if I ask them to once after I evoked them?
And what about the great abyss??? And the worlds beneath and about it??? where do I find more material on that subject... I hope u giys can help me... I am totally lost.
And hey do u need any special gifts to perform all these magic acts in general??? Some of the books I have read is totally high level language and I don't seem to understand what the authors are trying to say...
Don't those entities have to fear karma too? Do the beings in the physical plane alone have to worry about their karma or consequences of the action. If they do something bad then don't they pay for it? tell me one more thing... if they chose to, can they pick out anyone from any world and hurt them... like can they reach someone here in the physical plane without prior contact or his or her knowledge...  

Bye guys...

and also thanks for all the people who have taken time to reply my queries ( i mean it )

The subject of beliefs and religion is a very complex subject and one which is very personal to many.  Often times, people will find themselves looking at more than one religion and questioning which is good.  It's what I like to call evolution of consciousness.

The more I read and feel, the more I believe that there really isn't such a thing as "bad/evil" "good/bad"  more or less in the same way that there isn't really such a thing as "male/female" in the higher-self's sense.  Satan, I believe was invented in the same way a soul splits into male/female so to speak (If God was good, than evil must have existed).  Does good really need to be good or evil.  What does it really mean to be "good" or "bad"?  Good/Bad is in the eye of the beholder.  Arguably, everything that's bad is good if you take a look at the global picture and vice versa.  Thus implying that no action is really bad or good.

[SomeBloke]

[Nita]

Hello Some Bloke
I agree about studying Franz Bardons system. It has been what I have been doing ever since I left that group. My opinions upon the Goetia and the demons is this. It just shows you what you do not want to do.
  I know after the first year I was clearing them out of students houses, and helping others. I would not do the conjurations because of a pact being an agreement with a negative force. I watched a lot of people who tried to achieve something using demons and the results were always flawed and twisted.
  It is not about philosophy but what you want in your life. If you want even your best intentions to always end up manifesting in the worse way possible do a lot of conjurations to have demons help you.
  The keys of Solomon are about a lot more things than the Goetia. You have to do the whole system to do it properly. It is not a system I would advise for anyone.
  Franz Bardon's system is the best organized and helps you to bring yourself further along your Path. Your Path is what is right for you. It is not about some group, school or someone Else's philosophy. Groups are only good for socializing, learning what not to do by watching others, and getting ideas when you have problems. You may learn things from them but there is always the chance that is all about what not to do.
  Alice Bailey and some others mention what Black magicians are about. They are people out for themselves, and think of themselves first. They are soulless in the way that they have no compassion or kindness towards others with out it benefiting them.
  They are into illusion and delusion by the words they say and their actions are what shows others what they are about. It is also true about their magic. They want people who can be led and used by them so they do not have to take the results and responsibilities for their actions.
  Everyone tries to make it out about forcing spirits but it is our right and wrong actions that say what we are about. It is also learning from our mistakes. Everyone who uses the goetia should first think what their inner nature is about and act accordingly.
      Nita

[SomeBloke]

[aryanknight666]

Hello Arayan Knight
God is non-denominational and has many faces or names. What you say about demons is incorrect if you are using the Goetia. You say two things at once if you compare your prior messages.
What I believe in as a religion is not up for discussion. It was do I know about demons. I do and let us hear about your qualifications. How much experience do you have, how many have you dealt with, and what makes you feel you are an expert. It is not about philosophy I am talking real life experience.
Nita

Hello Nita,
I have had intimate experiences with the Demon Ashtaroth/Astarte/Inanna/Ishtar. The Demon Guison I beleive is my guardian although I am not 100% sure. I have invoked Guison and he has spoken through me to do a reading for a member of the Astral Pulse (Sentential).
I have spoken to Barbatos and I have spoken to Amon. I have envoked Bes/The Bes/Legion.
I personally know many people with far more experience then me with the Demons and their Guardian Demons. I do know personally one or two people who would have summoned every Demon of the Goetia.
It is not a simple philosophy that they are no longer under a curse, it did literally happen and they were freed with energy workings. I know some of the people who freed them.

[Nita]

Hello Arayan knight 666
  I am happy you have clarified this. I also read in another post that you were a satanist which means you and your friends do not mind having agreements with demons. I am not picking upon you but it is the path you and they chose.
  It means that you prefer the energies of chaos. They may help but demons never do anything with out some benefit. A person doing the goetia is doing it under the assumption that a conjuration to get a benefit from a demon costs them nothing. It is untrue.
  I know summoning them to remove them from others is different than conjurations. There is a lot of hair splitting on what is right or wrong so unless the person doing demons from the goetia is ready to accept the fact that he will have a pact of agreement with a demon he should not do it.
  Angels have helped a lot of people I have known with none of the twists and turns demons do to others. I prefer them but I do not have to make agreements with them but to ask and they give freely. One is like dealing with the Mafia and the other is like being given a gift of love.
  I prefer the gift of love. You can talk philosophy all you want but people should be given good advice. They need information not which one you or I prefer. I believe there are too many people here who miss that fact.
  Nita

[narfellus]

Franz Bardon's system is the best organized and helps you to bring yourself further along your Path. Your Path is what is right for you. It is not about some group, school or someone Else's philosophy. Groups are only good for socializing, learning what not to do by watching others, and getting ideas when you have problems. You may learn things from them but there is always the chance that is all about what not to do.
  Alice Bailey and some others mention what Black magicians are about. They are people out for themselves, and think of themselves first. They are soulless in the way that they have no compassion or kindness towards others with out it benefiting them.

I am studying Franz Bardon now as well, and i agree with Nita (among others) that is the best organized and written of such occult material. I know little about the Goetia, but from what i understand, it is not a system i would endeavor to learn. Demons, despite the debatable nature of "good and evil" are not beings i want to associate with.  
 Alice Bailey, as i am learning, is rather complex, but rich in truth. I think it is valuable to learn about as much as we can, even the "bad" aspects of magic, if for no other reason than to know what NOT to do. Everyone's Path is truly their own.

[AgentSartori]

Nita said:

"They may help but demons never do anything with out some benefit. A person doing the goetia is doing it under the assumption that a conjuration to get a benefit from a demon costs them nothing. It is untrue.
I know summoning them to remove them from others is different than conjurations. There is a lot of hair splitting on what is right or wrong so unless the person doing demons from the goetia is ready to accept the fact that he will have a pact of agreement with a demon he should not do it.
Angels have helped a lot of people I have known with none of the twists and turns demons do to others. I prefer them but I do not have to make agreements with them but to ask and they give freely. One is like dealing with the Mafia and the other is like being given a gift of love. "

The whole concept of "demons" or "angels" all comes down to ones perception. It is all in how you perceive yourself and what you are doing. Personally, I do not believe in "demons" or "angels" for they are all forces of energy, energy which is summoned and charged by the "magician".

No working done is ever without cost, be it calling "demons" or "angels", nothing is ever free everything has a cost. Some things may just be more costly than others. If a person is not ready to accept the fact that they are responsible for all they do, then they have no business summoning, calling, or performing any type of ritual. What is right or wrong is up to the individual and the individual should be prepared to deal with what they do.

Just what twists and turns do demons do? In my own experience those who get "twisted and turned" as you say, are those who are not responsible nor are they  prepared  for the work they are attempting to do; it matters not if they are trying to call a "demon" or an "angel".

As I said before, nothing is ever given freely, you just have to consider the cost.

As far as working with the Goetia, if you are not sure then don't. Do as much research as possible, think, consider and weigh all options before undertaking any type of working. Be informed, be prepared, be responsible.

[Nita]

Hello Sartori
  The best example I can give is most people do not have control of themselves completely when doing ceremony's. Especially in the beginning of doing conjurations.
  One of the first exorcisms I did was because of a woman in love with a singer in a rock band. She was head of his fan club and then she found out he was going to get married. She had been studying magic and instantly made up her own ritual per the demons instructions that she conjured. She did this so he would marry her and no one else would marry him. He committed suicide 4 weeks later. It was her responsibility and stipulations but that is one example.
  Another one was a person who wanted success in business. He became really rich. He never stipulated how the demon could do it so the richer and more powerful he became the more possessed he became. The reason why the demon took advantage of the fact that it was the demons energies doing this and replaced them with his own.
  I sometimes feel that the best person for doing a demon conjuration would be a very anal retentive lawyer who lists and classifies everything so no loop holes are left. No offense to any lawyers upon the forum!
  Most people who do this are not ready to take the responsibility or work upon themselves. They are younger and feel they can do anything then find out how much it can hurt later.
  It is why the IIH is important once you get the control and balance you normally find out what you want to do.
       Nita

[narfellus]

I sometimes feel that the best person for doing a demon conjuration would be a very anal retentive lawyer who lists and classifies everything so no loop holes are left.

That's pretty funny, Nita. Has anyone EVER conjured demons and had nothing but glowing success and karmic impunity? How'd Solomon pull it off?

[AgentSartori]

Nita said:

" most people do not have control of themselves completely when doing ceremony's."

I completely agree with you. That, in my opinion, is the problem...to many would-be magicians who do not know themselves well enough to have control over themselves.

" Most people who do this are not ready to take the responsibility or work upon themselves. They are younger and feel they can do anything then find out how much it can hurt later. "

Again, I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Those who are young and feel all powerful and confident and invincible are indeed foolish in such endeavors. Which is why I also added to research, be informed, be prepared, and be responsible, although I think too many people don't take that seriously.

Also, I like the remark about the lawyer, lol.

[LordoftheBunnies]

Hi Nita.

I've read in a number of places that one should not attempt Goetic evocations until they've established contact with their Holy Guardian Angel.  Is this true?  Also, other than things like knowledge or magical services, are there really any reasons for which anyone would need for summoning a demon?  I'm wondering because I've also read that working with Goetic demons helps a magician bring under control those aspects of his mind that the demons relate too.

[Nita]

Hello Lord of the Bunnies
  There are many ways to work upon your negative self without having an outside force being able to harm you while doing it. I have not found anything I could get with demons that I could also not do with other methods that were safer.
  I would try Initiation into Hermetics and in part 1 you see a section called soul mirrors. To understand a lot of the principles behind magic I would read the Kybalion. To learn to control yourself I would read the buddhist ebook Cittanunpassana. I posted it upon this website in the past if you are interested and can not find it I will email it to you.
  My email address is nita@astralpulse.com. You can then figure out for yourself if there is any reason to conjure a demon after you study.
    Nita

[aryanknight666]

There is no such thing as good or evil, pure good, or pure evil. It is a relative concept. There's is no good or evil; only sentiancy.
In other words, beings cannot be purely good or purely evil. They can only be Sentient. As for beings who aren't Sentient, well, I'm not sure what to make of that.
I am more comfortable with an entity who will openly say 'I do not love you becaue I do not know you'. A being who says 'I love you unconditionally' is obviously not a Sentient being. He may understand Sentient beings, which is why he says that in the first place (because with love we are most vulnerable, we make the most mistakes and the most energy is given with love and of course 'I love you unconditionally' is what we want to hear) but he is not a Sentient being himself and never has been, he can only asses Sentient beings and figure out how he can use them to his advantage.
People assume a spirit is evil just because it lashes out or gets angry when it is insulted or abused. What nonsense!
I trust a being who greets me like a human greets a new acquaintance when they do not know me yet, and gradually get to know me and to like me before they say that they love me. Love is a two way thing. Beings who are more like humans are obviously safer for humans to trust.
And beings who are not like humans at all; then it might be understood why they have persecuted and abused beings who are more like humans.
When using a Ouija board for example, there are some beings who are just calm and placid. The planchette moves slowly and calmly and there is no emotion or movement in it at all. This is cold. A warm being who is Sentient, then you can actually feel emotion and movement.
You ALL would happily abuse and insult a Goetic spirit, and for this it would get angry and lash out at you probably. That's why it must be evil, musn't it?  
What about insulting and abusing angels? They're meant to be good and all loving so what would they do? well of course you've never tried because you'd never think of doing such a thing!  

I have dealt with Angelic beings before when I was on the RHP. It was like
'Do you love me?'
'Yes' it responds calmly and unpassionatley.
'Really?'
'Yes'.
........

Now, when I dealt with them on the LHP path, that was a very different story. I had just dedicated one or two nights before and was attacked in a hotel room by some obviously very angry individuals because of what I had done. When the goetic spirits were being freed with energy workings by some high preists and preistesses, they were physically attacked by angels. Including the Angel micheal, who pushed someone down a flight of stairs. They made many attempts to get them to stop and to convert, bribes and the like, and even just down right pleading.

As for angels, what exactly is it they give you 'out of the goodness of their own heart' as you speak of? Would they win someone's freindship or love for you? would they give you the winning lottery numbers? I'm assuming they wouldn't do anything of that sort for you because 'it is not important in the long run' or 'those sorts of things do not matter and it would be blah blah blah'

Do you honestly think, in summong demons who have been bound by their own enemies, using the names and curses of their enemies, insulting and abusing them, chiding them with a magical weapon and treating them like time bombs, that they are going to give you something 'out of the goodness of their own heart'?
It seems like they're going to be extremely reluctant to do anything at all for you but in these days when they were bound and cursed I guess that they didn't have much of a choice but they would have demanded you do something for them in return, rightfully so, since wouldn't you?

Now days they are no longer under this curse but, think about it this way, if someone does you a really big favour for you just because you ask them do you think you owe them something? of course. Would it be uncourteous to not show them a token of you gratitude or to do someting for them as a thanks for their services? Yes!

My advice to anyone on the RHP; don't summon demons, period. Your very presence and notion of summoning them is an insult to them, thinking that they are 'lower astral entities' and treating them like poison, obsessing over having protection and take all these sorts of precautions and calling them up in the names of their enemy. You are only inviting disaster.

[Nita]

Hello Arayan Knight
  You really do not know the methods I use to exoricise things. Demons are sentient but do not have our emotions any more than angels. You can be sentitent and not have certain emotions.
  Now for your experience with angels everything is subjective. We could discuss the differences in our opinions for ages. I do know that the people I have helped have as many people who were LHP'ers as RHP'ers. Some never did any magic at all but moved where magic had been done improperly.
  All of the ones who had tried to conjure demons were mentally unprepared to do so. They thought they were ready but they were not by the results that they achieved. It is not about what is LHP or RHP but about what the results were that happened.
  I have had one instance in 34 years of a goetic demon not listening to me. Again this is exorcising them when they do not want to leave. They can not live here without someone to obsess or possess so  they can clothe themselves in the energies of this dimension. It is why they do these things because they do not like where they exist. It is not about competence but the fact that the people who start out using this method have a chance to get in serious trouble using it. They should read about other methods and research them.
  They should learn to control and understand themselves first and then think about any conjurations and rituals. Every system has its drawback but the Goetia has a lot of big drawbacks.
  Nita

[Armaroth59]

Do you think the Practices found in Summoning Spirits by Konstantinos is suitbale for summing spirits? I have the book. And im just wnodeirng.

Thankyou

[aryanknight666]

Hello Arayan Knight
You really do not know the methods I use to exoricise things. Demons are sentient but do not have our emotions any more than angels. You can be sentitent and not have certain emotions.
Now for your experience with angels everything is subjective. We could discuss the differences in our opinions for ages. I do know that the people I have helped have as many people who were LHP'ers as RHP'ers. Some never did any magic at all but moved where magic had been done improperly.
All of the ones who had tried to conjure demons were mentally unprepared to do so. They thought they were ready but they were not by the results that they achieved. It is not about what is LHP or RHP but about what the results were that happened.
I have had one instance in 34 years of a goetic demon not listening to me. Again this is exorcising them when they do not want to leave. They can not live here without someone to obsess or possess so they can clothe themselves in the energies of this dimension. It is why they do these things because they do not like where they exist. It is not about competence but the fact that the people who start out using this method have a chance to get in serious trouble using it. They should read about other methods and research them.
They should learn to control and understand themselves first and then think about any conjurations and rituals. Every system has its drawback but the Goetia has a lot of big drawbacks.
Nita

And where do they exist that they do not like?