Evolving Spritually

[Wi11iam]

So here I am now thinking about what the point might be for those who have practiced and attained a consistent level in their ability to project their conscious F1 awareness into the Invisible Realm (F2, F3 and F4)
This got me thinking about F2 + F4 and that this combination would be equal to an additional 'land' within the vast expanse of F3 – and what this would have to do in relation to F1.

According to my own understanding, as well as many others, there is more to travelling to the Invisible Realm than to sight see and muck about and generally have fun.

It is also about purpose – and by that I mean from the holistic point of view where the four main 'sections' of our collective consciousness (using Frank K's model) are seen as one whole consciousness, and therefore down to the actual purpose of that one consciousness.
This implies an intelligent reason for the actual existence and development of that consciousness, and is inclusive of all aspects of consciousness.
Obviously based on eyewitness accounts of this realm, it is so vast as to appear limitless and eternal and thus is conceivably able to entertain the tourist Astral Projectionist forever.

However, it seems to me that this cannot be its only function, as it would appear from an awareness outside this Realm, that the Consciousness which encloses the totality of that Realm is quiet happily entertaining itself with it's unlimited supply of distractions, and possibilities and has no wish or desire to break free from its illusion of what it collectively sees itself to be.

With the aspect of the witnesses who traverse from F1 to F3 and bring back their stories, these stories are reduced to concepts understandable to those in F1, and there does not seem to be overall reason or purpose or agreement in the stories brought back, other than the focus seems to be on fun, adventure, and persuading others in F1 as to the validity of the existence of F2, F3, F4 – and to learn techniques in order to be able to traverse to take a look for oneself, and have fun, adventure play war games, etc...

...Pretty much the way life is lived in F1...

...But of course, there is more than meets the eye...

[Xanth]

Yup, there is much more to do than "sight see", definitely.
However, remember that you're in *THIS* physical reality frame for a reason... whatever that reason might be (to grow spiritually?  to learn to love?  whatever...) this is where your focus needs to be mostly. 

[Wi11iam]

Xanth :Yup, there is much more to do than "sight see", definitely.
However, remember that you're in *THIS* physical reality frame for a reason... whatever that reason might be (to grow spiritually?  to learn to love?  whatever...) this is where your focus needs to be mostly.

Xanth – we are the same collective intelligent consciousness, and this is true regardless of the apparent individual perspective/experience, or distracting influences/reasons which might apply.

As that collective ONE – we know what Love is, and we are evolving spiritually.  My (and your) focus may need to be in *THIS* physical reality for the reason of personal 'whatever's' so what is it you (as someone who can/does) recommend to any who wish to expand their experience to include the wholeness of our collective consciousness (F2 F3 F4) as a reason to learn to do so?

What do YOU do while in these places that reflects the underlying motivation YOU have to shift your focus - ?
Your purpose, your reason....

[Xanth]

What do I recommend?

Live here.
Live now. 

[Wi11iam]

What do I recommend?

Live here.
Live now.

Ryan -

"Here" and "Now" are aspects of our conscious awareness which places us in a time and a place, be that F1, F2 or F3.
Therefore it is hardly something to recommend as it is already a natural state of being for everyone. We, who live - already are 'here and now.' wherever that may be.


In relation to that fact, and to the subject of 'spiritual evolution', do you understand that a perfectly intelligent being with such creative capabilities would find the concept of spiritual evolution to be a 'reason for being' and thus explore the concept until it comprehends whether it needs it, and if so, how this can be achieved and by doing so -  discover?

What is your reason for living here and now [being] regarding the 'spiritual evolution' of us, in relation to the collective elements of our consciousness, as One Being, and in relation to your own experiences within the conscious collective reality?


Do you understand that a Conscious Being able to create such environments within its collective self, is completely intelligent and thus able to discover/know the reason it exists and move toward making that reason a purposeful reality?

You appear to hint that you do -

Yup, there is much more to do than "sight see", definitely.

Are you able to expand on this? 

Do you agree overall with Frank K's account, in relation to the information he, as part of his purpose, shared?  http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html

[Lexy]

Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.

[Xanth]

Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.

^ 

Wi11iam,
Have you ever thought that, perhaps, you're a bit too wordy?

I agree with his accounts as far as they were "his" experiences, yeah.
What more is there to do in the non-physical?  Well, you're, literally, limited by only your imagination. 

But really, only you can answer that question for yourself.  You're not going to find the answer outside yourself.

[Wi11iam]

Wi11iam,
Have you ever thought that, perhaps, you're a bit too wordy?


Do you think I am too wordy Ryan?  How can I help you better understand?


I agree with his accounts as far as they were "his" experiences, yeah.

Does this signify that you don't know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

I myself know that what Frank shared IS as he describes it, even though I have never consciously experienced such, but I ask you if that is your knowing as well.



What more is there to do in the non-physical?  Well, you're, literally, limited by only your imagination.   

I did not ask 'what is there to do in the non-physical'  I asked if you, as an astral  projectionist – having witnessed these 'Focuses' and agree with Frank's assessment, that all of it is the product of One consciousness

I also asked you if you understood that this One consciousness is intelligent and therefore, being intelligent, has reason and purpose.

In asking, I am wanting information from you as to whether you are supporting this intelligent consciousness to that end, or whether you have a different agenda, even if it is the agenda of indifference – in which case you will gravitate to those aspects of F3 which are indifferent etc...)


But really, only you can answer that question for yourself.  You're not going to find the answer outside yourself.



I am of course looking for 'like minded' aspects of the collective, those who understand that the whole of consciousness is indeed One Being and is essentially All Of Us -  that this being is intelligent and has a purpose which of course includes every individual who is able to acknowledge this and connect with it in a way which assists the whole consciousness (F1 F2 F3 & F4) to that inevitable point.

In order to find these aspects - these individuals, I have to ask. 

Sometimes it is obvious but it is not so obvious when the personality is invisible and doesn't seem to want to talk about it.  Perhaps you have talked about it and can provide a link(s) to this information?

Of course, I understand too that you are saying that If I want answers I will have to practice the art myself and 'go there' but then even if I could, how would I recognise you in order to ask you 'there', these questions you, for unknown reasons, don't seem to want to answer me 'here'.

Yes I do understand your comment regarding 'imagination' and certainly I can say that there is a 'place' in the vastness of F3 which I myself have/am creating using the unlimited tool of imagination, and this 'place' is noticeably different from its surrounds (the other 'places' within that realm) – once one knows what to look for.  This 'place' reflects the realization of the totality of what we all are and where we derive our existence and why we exist, and a great deal many more things.

"Do you realize the whole conscious intelligence that you are alive within, has purpose and reason to evolve spiritually."

The reason of course that I ask you is because you might not realise that this is the main reason that you exist at all.

Anything else is distraction – and you know how distracting F3 is, being so vast and still growing...it is easy to not realise why you are, with all that going on.

  This level equates to Monroe's F23 - F27 areas. Focus 3 is big, and I mean HUGE! You could probably spend thousands of years exploring this area and only manage to cover a fraction of it, with new additions and changes occurring all the time. 
Frank Kepple

[Wi11iam]

Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.


Hi Lexy – I understand what you say here – however it is not a practicable philosophical concept in regards to Intelligent Consciousness and spiritual evolution.

For example, the very fact that there are techniques offered regarding 'how to' based on hoped for future events - to astral project for example, or to look for a guide etc... any number of daily activities which require both an awareness of the past (in relation to the present) and on the projected collective future of the One Consciousness as also pertains to the present.

This is the full meaning of 'Present Awareness'.  Past, present and future working in congregate, with purpose (not the illusion of individual purpose, gratification, amusement etc) but the reality of The Collective Purpose – a true understanding of what it is, what its past is and what it is moving toward becoming...and where the individual 'fits' into this.

Present is a descriptive of where every individual and grouped 'system' within the totality of this One Consciousness reside at any one 'time' – it is and always will be the 'position' of conscious, intelligent awareness.  In the NOW, but not indifferent to where it (we) came from or where we (it) is going.

[Pauli2]

Does this signify that you don't know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

Let me put it like this:

If you read the full Frank PDF (1187 pages) how many detailed experiences of Frank do you think you will find?

I've elaborated on this issue before in my review of the Newsletters. Really, check it out and think things over. Then, please come back and tell us if you've got some new thoughts.

For a while I almost stopped reading the PDF as it gave too little of value, but I've picked it up again, as I feel I should finish it.

[Xanth]

Does this signify that you don’t know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

Nope.  Nobody can.
It's impossible to experience someone else's experiences unless you were there with them at the time, but even then, you can then only experience YOUR PERCEPTION of that experience.

I am of course looking for ‘like minded’ aspects of the collective, those who understand that the whole of consciousness is indeed One Being and is essentially All Of Us -  that this being is intelligent and has a purpose which of course includes every individual who is able to acknowledge this and connect with it in a way which assists the whole consciousness (F1 F2 F3 & F4) to that inevitable point.

I can GUARANTEE you won't find that in reading through other peoples experiences.  You WILL find it by having your own and experimenting with it.

[Summerlander]

Do I think the Whole is intelligent? No. I think intelligence is one of the concepts which pristine cognition (we) are attracted to. Like a magnetic reaction. Experience is all there is. Watch yourself embrace your partner, feel the love, experience the meaning...it means a lot.

Now imagine yourself distancing yourself from the couple...like an out of body experience...the man is no longer yourself. They are still embracing. You may still see that as a couple in love. Now imagine that your mode of perception starts to change and makes you look at what is happening in a different way...

You no longer see two people there, who have feelings for each other as you start to get rid of all your earthly concepts. Now you just see two forms, attracted to each other...they seem to want to merge. Suddenly, you no longer see the forms as sentient beings...it's just forms that once represented something...once upon a time they meant something...

The lesser the concepts, the freer you get, more room there will be, less friction, the more abstract you can get and be comfortable with it...it may even allow you to see the bigger picture. Continuing with this may even lead to the rejection of all concepts and an absence of self may be achieved. I know...it's hard to imagine that...but it is also hard to imagine something which is infinite.

You get my point, Wi11iam?

[Xanth]

Wi11iam,

I get the feeling that you seem to be missing the forest for the trees... completely.

[personalreality]

Here & now is present awareness..not thinking about the past or the future.

the album that i just finished is called "Here/Now" for that reason.

[Xanth]

Wi11iam,

Here's one opinion on what evolving spiritually means:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDVtxvvRGQI

[Wi11iam]

  Wow!  All of a sudden things have got very 'wordy'! 


Okay guys - here is my routine in relation to you.  I wake up I get up (etc) and I read the [collective] response to my opinion.  I then go to work, where I assess what needs to be done and what the best order of doing it will be (this is one sign of conscious intelligence with purpose and reason.)

I the set my body to 'auto' and get about thinking on the comments you have presented in the form of apparent 'outside' opinion (gathered).
Another sign of conscious intelligence and reason and purpose ygtp. (you get the picture)

So this 'thinking' of course is really a process of entering the data you have provided and then placing this data in dovetail with the data I have 'saved' as 'proven truth yet to be seriously proven false' – and – 'Interesting and possibly useful in some now moment of time' (or is that "now" moment of "time?) < [loa] (look of astonishment)

Sometimes the data does not 'fit' – at least not 'properly' as there are gaps.

In the case of such data I place it where it kinda fits and get on with 'it' (experiencing life in F1 unfolding as it does, in relation to my knowing that I exist as an intelligent conscious reality with a mission/purpose/reason.
In the case of Frank K's data (The Resource), it dovetailed almost exactly with my 'proven truth' data and I have shared about this here:

My Journey

Now Ryan, I understand perfectly that we each are aspects of conscious intelligence and as such we perform according to our F1 personality when we are communing in F1.  It is proven that different personalities 'learn' differently – some are visual, some are hands on, some are – well we all learn 'differently' but we share the same environment, - so to speak – and I appear wordy to you because I use words a particular way and this might not 'appeal' to you.

However, this is a forum, and words do get used in forums and some folk enjoy reading.

Indeed, Frank seems to have a great deal of words he has shared, and I wonder if you are able to read them and understand them and if so then I will look at ways to adapt my writing style that it may be a more enjoyable experience for you, because I think I have something to share which might be important to the wholeness of the intelligent conscious entity that we are.

Also, on your 'feeling' that I may be missing the forest for the trees so to speak, well maybe – but maybe not.

And Ryan, what I asked was not about verifying Franks experiences, but the "area's" (Fs 1 2 3 & 4) where those experiences took place – can you in your own experiences, verify that these areas (of consciousness) exists and are functioning as Frank describes?


Thanks for that link Pauli2. Okay – I see it is your opinion about Franks opinion (a review as you say) and I may have my opinion about your opinion about Franks opinion after I read what you have to say.

Or not – but I will check back with you either way. 

Also – no I haven't read the full PDF you mentioned.  Unless it covers Frank debunking his own model from The FK Resource, I probably don't need to go there – it is not the details of his/others experiences as in "stories" that interests me as much as it is the 'area' where these 'stories' take place.

Thanks for the links to Franks first newsletter

Summerlander.  Watch yourself embrace your partner, feel the love, experience the meaning...it means a lot to that which is conscious and intelligent and has purpose and reason for being.
Experience is all there is?  Experience is useless without conscious purposeful reasoning intelligence, without which, experience simply cannot BE, let alone be ALL there is.

Now imagine yourself distancing yourself from the couple...like an out of body experience...the man is no longer yourself, but the experience of being that man is a part of yourself.

They are still embracing. You may still see that as a couple in love. Now imagine that your mode of perception starts to change and makes you look at what is happening in a different way...

You no longer see two people there, who have feelings for each other as you start to get rid of all your earthly concepts. Now you just see two forms, attracted to each other...they seem to want to merge. Suddenly, you no longer see the forms as sentient beings...it's just forms that once represented something...once upon a time they meant something...

Imagine then that you realise that you went into that experience to experience it because you had reason to do so which as an intelligent consciousness you understand through the discovery of 'being that' you appreciate what 'being that' has done to assist you in your intelligent purpose.
You do know that this purpose may not necessarily be able to be conveyed to that aspect of yourself which was in human form and experiencing human love in form – there may not be 'words' easily conveyable – but certainly if that aspect showed any sign of wanting to know, you would of course assist it in this quest for knowledge, because you are infinitely capable of doing so...in fact it is part of my overall plan as an intelligent conscious being of purpose, that I do commune with all aspects of myself/experience(s)



The lesser the concepts, the freer you get, more room there will be, less friction, the more abstract you can get and be comfortable with it...it may even allow you to see the bigger picture. Continuing with this may even lead to the rejection of all concepts and an absence of self may be achieved. I know...it's hard to imagine that...but it is also hard to imagine something which is infinite.
You get my point, Wi11iam?
Imagine you are



Imagine I are what?

Oh, but I share that.  No concepts are something I come from, before I came here.  My self is the cause of All That Is, and All That Is Not.  Now imagine that.

You see, whenever I move into All That Is Not – I lose myself.  In doing so, I 'begin' again, and in this I achieve a loop – such as I am unaware that I am reliving because I am reinventing, because ultimately I Am, and it is what I do.
You see, even when I am in All That Is Not, I am still essentially something.
I am consciousness and thus inevitably I will make something out of nothing.
In doing so I will explore that something and in exploring that something I will discover myself.
In discovering myself, I will create 'things' which reflect myself being discovered and this will continue until I have purpose and reason and then I will reach the fulfilment of that purpose and I will not perform the loop procedure and return to All That Is Not, because that would not be intelligent, or purposeful.

What I will be doing is creating something else FROM this point.

Imagine that.

[Xanth]

Also, on your 'feeling' that I may be missing the forest for the trees so to speak, well maybe – but maybe not.

Honestly, it's the same forest that Pauli keeps missing... (no offense intended Pauli)

And Ryan, what I asked was not about verifying Franks experiences, but the "area's" (Fs 1 2 3 & 4) where those experiences took place – can you in your own experiences, verify that these areas (of consciousness) exists and are functioning as Frank describes?

Nope, because his experiences are unique to him... I'm not sure how many different ways I can put that before people start to understand it.  O_o  Now, I'm not saying you have to accept it, nor take it into your own belief system.  Just understand what I'm saying. 
Nobody can confirm their existence... the best people can have is their own interpretation of his Focus levels.  This is the entire point I've been trying to get across.  You *can not* have Franks Focus Level experiences.  It's impossible. 

[Wi11iam]

Also, on your 'feeling' that I may be missing the forest for the trees so to speak, well maybe – but maybe not.


Honestly, it's the same forest that Pauli keeps missing... (no offense intended Pauli)


Hmm – okay so you have an ongoing dynamics with Pauli – nvm.


Ryan, what I asked was not about verifying Franks experiences, but the "area's" (Fs 1 2 3 & 4) where those experiences took place – can you in your own experiences,
verify that these areas (of consciousness) exists and are functioning as Frank describes?

Nope, because his experiences are unique to him... I'm not sure how many different ways I can put that before people start to understand it. 


Perhaps you need to get just a bit more wordy – sometimes it helps.


O_o  Now, I'm not saying you have to accept it, nor take it into your own belief system.  Just understand what I'm saying. 



Again, if you really want others to understand you, then communicate a little more than one liners.  It does help the process Ryan.  We don't have to 'agree' with every last little detail, but sharing maps (as I call it) is helpful to all of us as we are in this together (even though you seem to give the impression that we are not)



Nobody can confirm their existence...

I can – you are relating to a real person having an existence.  I also confirm that you exist.



...the best people can have is their own interpretation of his Focus levels. 
This is the entire point I've been trying to get across.  You *can not* have Franks Focus Level experiences.  It's impossible.


Yet I think we are perhaps not talking the same thing.  I have tried to clarify – I will give it another go.

This from Frank K (resource):

  As stated in the summery, Focus 1, labelled by Robert Monroe as C1, is what we usually refer to as the physical or material world. For the duration of our physical lives, our Primary Focus remains Focus 1 (F1). Anyone reading this within the physical (Focus 1) has their Primary Focus set to the physical. Frank Kepple

Okay – so the 'area' I am speaking of in relation to F1, is 'being on a planet in a Galaxy, in a universe, all quiet physical in nature.
Yes _ I understand that we each have a unique experience but we do so in a shared environment.  It is the environment which I am alluding to, and I am pretty sure I have clarified this and that there should be no confusion, so by you saying, "NO" you don't, I then start to wonder then where you are coming from, especially since you seem unable or unwilling to say.

Also I disagree with you that it is impossible to experience someone else's experience – and remind you that there is no limit to the imagination.  However, I do not think it is necessary to experience someone else's life – these are nonetheless 'recorded' in living colour and it is possible to inject or have my conscious individual self injected into your life's imprint(s) [see "quantum jumping" FMI (for more information)] and experience any of them as you are/have/will/do...but that would not be necessary.  My own life has provided the necessary information.

[Lexy]

If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
~Albert Einstein

[Wi11iam]

Okay Ryan  in reading the link Pauli pointed me towards, I see this comment from you in reply to another:

Killa Rican: I always enjoyed reading franks posts as theres alot i can relate to in it, but i never really agreed nor liked his accusation that all being/entitys we encounter are fabrications of the mind.

You:  Because he never said that.
Focus 2 oC entities are created of your mind.
Focus 3 oC "people" are real beings.

So I ask, does this description of these 'areas' align with your own experiences or are they constructs of Franks own mind/belief systems?
I think my question is okay to ask those who claim to AP, and there is a lot of talk about the comparisons of Munroe's models and Franks - the models may be different and I get that Frank simplified things into 4 (or perhaps 5) 'areas of the One Consciousness' so of course I am curious as to what others who experience AP have to say, for or against the models - certainly there is alignment in them both, (Munroe's and Kepple's) and from my own perspective and journey (experience) information I have, aligns with what Frank has to say. 

[Pauli2]

Okay Ryan  in reading the link Pauli pointed me towards, I see this comment from you in reply to another:

Killa Rican: I always enjoyed reading franks posts as theres alot i can relate to in it, but i never really agreed nor liked his accusation that all being/entitys we encounter are fabrications of the mind.

You:  Because he never said that.
Focus 2 oC entities are created of your mind.
Focus 3 oC "people" are real beings.

So I ask, does this description of these 'areas' align with your own experiences or are they constructs of Franks own mind/belief systems?
I think my question is okay to ask those who claim to AP, and there is a lot of talk about the comparisons of Munroe's models...

Monroe.

His name is Monroe.

-------


First of all, Frank's model is an extreme, almost hopeless simplification.

Most creatures in F 2 oC are real creatures, as described in FJ and Cosmic Journeys (Rosalind McKnight), but you have to decide which Focus you are talking about as there is a huge difference between for example F 15 and F 22.

Huge.

Really Huge.

F 15 (part of F 2 oC) is connected to F 27 and F 15 is constantly being worked on by discarnates from F 27 as described in Moens 3rd book.

F 22 (also part of F 2 oC) is dream land, where many entities are thought forms, some are aliens (Monroe gave an example in one of TMI's youtube clips), some are discarnates and some are other fellow dreamers or OBE incarnates.

If you at all are going to use Frank's over-simplified model, which in my opinion has little value, please state what Monroe Focus you are talking about as things otherwise quickly become silly.

As i said, most adventures by the Explorers as described in FJ & Cosmic Journeys were done in F 1 oC and F 2 oC, but if you use Frank's labels, you just make things incomprehensible.

Be clear.

State what on Earth you are talking about!

If you re-read FJ & Cosmic Journeys you will notice that the overwhelming amount of Explorer experiences comes from F 12 and some also come from F 10, which are widely different from F 22 and F 15.


Do you get it?

Do you see why I think Frank's model is plain silly?

Do it right. And do it right from the beginning, please.

Use the correct Focus Level labels, and not some fuzzy home-made Frank stuff with minimal scientific background.

Please.

--------



Personally I would like some one to describe F 18 a little better as it is totally centered around PUL, but if I said "Please, you big Frank expert, talk about Love in F 2 oC!", I would probably get crap as an answer.

Why?

Because I haven't stated what Monroe Focus I want the Frank expert to talk about when I only refer to F 2 oC.

That's why it's crappy.

So please, don't fall into the trap.

Be specific, not fuzzy.

Use the Monroe Focuses, please.

Please.

[Wi11iam]

  Aw geez...and in reading the comments further in the thread Pauli created, Ryan you say something which actually tells the reader that you DO acknowledge  the 'areas' Frank speaks of...okay so I wont 'bug' you anymore, asking for clarification...I am starting to look like I am stalking you in my persistence – so will leave things as they are...the words you say tell me the answer is "yes" you do, although you seem to lean more towards Munroe's model/labels than Keppel's, that is not here nor there...

As for the labeling... 
Personally speaking, I absolutely love the labeling!  It works great for me!  Although, I do recognize that it might not work for everyone, but I feel it helps me immensely to know exactly what I've experienced and exactly how far along I believe I am. - Ryan

[Pauli2]

Monroe

[Wi11iam]

Gosh Pauli!

Ah – well we each come from the direction we do, and at least we can respect that yes?
Okay – 'sorry' for the mistake in spelling 'Monroe' – Fortunately no one can own the Invisible Realm, although the concepts/interpretations might be owned by institutions, the Invisible Realm existed before anyone 'discovered' it.

Simplification is best.  Sure, we all have our preferred way of learning etc...but the labels in the different models pretty much point to the same thing.

I am not here to judge Frank K's model in comparison to Monroe's – that would be wasteful.

F1 F2 F3 F4 are suitable enough labels and it would be 'splitting hairs' to carry on in complaint by not being 'proper' – a distraction even.
YOU know what I am saying when I refer to – for example – F1. 

[Pauli2]

no