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Will do some advertising for this on other forums maybe.

Made my day.

It just seems to me that there are separate bodies for the separate planes.  If dreams take place on the astral plane in our astral body, and the physical reality dream takes place on the physical plane in our physical body, then how did I dream from the physical body?  My physical body wasn't asleep yet and the astral body hadn't separated yet, yet i still had dream imagery going on in my mind.  That's all I'm saying.  

You might differentiate between bodies (astral, physical, mental, etc.) and soul/mind/consciousness/awareness. Bodies are the vehicles you use on each consciousness plane.

And you can experience being bi-located or 'multidimentional/plane/layered' on several planes in several bodies. Many do and did this. I also felt my physical body and was projected on the astral plane with my astral body often. So this would mean we exist somehow in all of our bodies at once, it is just our "focus" (from a higher view) that changes, hence this leads back to Monroe's focus view. In a mind-split / bilocation / multiple awareness situation/projection we then have a 'focus split' or 'focus multiplying', if you will.

I understand that everything is an illusion or projection.  That is the ultimate truth.  Time and space is an illusion.  Everything in the physical and the non-physical is ultimately an illusion.  All the different planes of existence are illusions as are the bodies we have in each.  But to me, that doesn't explain it.  We are living within the illusion, so why are we talking about it from outside the illusion?  In this great illusion of life we seem to have different bodies for different planes. And if I'm just wondering how I could be dreaming from my physical body and not my astral body in the illusion.

I do not quite understand the equation projection = illusion. Generally, I do not think this 'illusionism' thing - which is abundant especially in a lot of new age material and speak - is the right philosophical approach. A projection is not an illusion for me, neither is a dream. For me all is 'real'.  

So how could ALL dreams be OBEs?

astral projectors can meet dreamers in their dreams and even see thoughts of awake people in the physical, so I think that all is a projection of some kind, just into a different layer/plane or however you want to call it

There is a focus level by the TMI also attributed to dreamers, also Kurt Leland wrote a lot about the astral Dream Zone (no matter if you're lucid or not).

I loved the book and a lot of things that Leland put out. He has an amazing ability to record his dreams and lucid adventures and so bring them back into written form.

There is no limitation of space in the nonphysical because it is not space. 

I have a cousin that died by a large bomb in Iraq, nothing left of him, and I want to know if he still lives on in the astral. I think the best way to answer that is to see if someone who had an amputated limb still has that limb in the astral. So please if you can honestly answer this question I would appreciate it. Either way if he lives on as a full embodied being in the afterlife or is a part of the cosmic dust once again. I just want to know the truth. Thanks.

I think the way you die has nothing to do how you then operate in the astral or any higher realms. He might have indeed a full body. In higher realms we do not have (human) bodies anyway since we are not human. Most people in the astral are in their 20s or 30ies even if they died much older. So you choose subconsciously how you look. In my dreams I am often younger (20-30) too.

Another angle to view it from:

Distinguish between BEING on a plane and PERCEIVING a plane.

Neither APers/OBErs nor NDE-OBErs are on the physical plane.

Did the doctors and nurses see the NDEr when he hovered above the surgery table? No. So he WAS not on their level/plane. But he PERCEIVED it.

Only manifestated entities/souls such as GHOSTS are on the same plane or they are PERCEIVED by the physical being via astral sight (and thus are still on another plane/level).

Call it etheric or astral or mental plane or whatever. The mind/soul/consciousness is already on another plane, probably even while you are thinking your 'thoughts' and are aware you are not on this 3D-plane with your consciusness alone (the brain activity reflects it yes, but they are not the thoughtforms/awareness themselves).

Makes sense? 

How about start living instead?

Again: the link

https://astral-blog.weebly.com/blog/validations-for-obe-english

And this is my point exactly. NDEers seem to actually still be observing what is going on in the REAL physical world, ie as if a ghost would. OBEs never observe what is going on in the real physical world, only a replica. That denotes a huge difference. So how can we be sure that NDEs and OBES are experiencing the same phenomenon? It can easily be said that an obe has simply accessed the dream construct. You cant say the same thing for an NDE because 1. They are observing the real physical world and 2. They are dead. UNLESS.....NDEers only THINK they are observing the "real" physical world but in truth they are only seeing the replica that we observe during obes. Im not convinced they are the same phenomenon.

OBErs do also a lot of validations, like the NDErs (however, most are done by the Remote Viewers actually) from the physical.

Have you seen my link? Please click on it. I stopped collecting examples years ago or it would be even double as long. I never even got started to do the NDEr and RVer validations. Too much.

I get your point somehow but I'm afraid it cannot be answered to your satisfaction.

We do not know the nature / physics of reality and planes exactly, how could we. So we can never really say how much the physical and 'etheric' or astral version of the physical are one of the same thing. Not in NDE and not in OBE. How can we? So your quest can never be answered satisfactorily.

What we know as experiencers is though that both levels / planes, are 'real' because you can get validations from the astral/etheric level.

I think it is like a filtering process, the physical filters into the astral and vice versa. But even NDErs could experience (and 'be') on an astral level of the physical. Note: That does NOT make it NOT real. 

How can we be sure an NDEer or a 'ghost' is not in the physical or astral entirely either? Maybe they also exist already in the closely linked etheric/astral plane (version of the RTZ). I believe we as multidimensional being exist simultaneously on all levels, that is why the I like Monroes (Kepple's) focus based view so much. So the whole RTZ business is certainly a bit fuzzy. There is constant interaction. Imagine it like thin veils laid on top of each other. And you can fly easily and switch betwen them all the time.

Some however are skilled RTZ (however you understand it) projectors. I remember the old book by Sylvan Muldoon, he was a very skilled RTZ projector and even stated he never was on an astral plane but only ever projected to the physical (and did validations). He also had etheric projections where he knocked down objects or produced knocking on the wall. Have you read the book? It was OBEs and no, he was not 'dead'. 

I've used Brainsync amongst others for many years. I find them also well done and soothing and good for meditation or relaxation.

However I rarely did the subliminals and I think they did not work for me when I tried.

I agree with all you wrote. My point was this: NDEers seem to actually experience the rtz whereas OBEers seem to access the dream state ie lucid dreams. So how can we know they are one in the same?

OBErs also visit the RTZ, definitely. Many have seen their bodies in bed, me included. It was the physical and not an astral 'vision' or copy or whatever. There's also many validations brought back from the physical that exist (see my signature link).

NDEs contain OBEs.

They were by people who were (near) dead.

OBErs are not dying but projecting. It's like the connection is still intact you just send out a 'drone' (your astral body). If you die your astral body leaves with your consciousness and you carry on elsewhere because there is no connection to your disfunctional body.

I've read a lot of literature and accounts (also online). I think both can have all more or less the same ranges of experiences, including meeting dead people (relatives), seeing yourself out-of-body, meeting "God" (mystic, unity experience)., tunnel flights to a light, etc.

Some aspects, such as an instant short life review are more typical of NDEs.

Since when did we decide the world is fake? I keep reading statements like - It's all subjective or we create our own reality

I'm one of those who does not say that. I say the opposite actually. Instead of 'all is illusion' I say 'all is REAL'. After all we talk about 'realities' (for planes, dimensions, realms, etc.) all the time too, right? It's in the word. It's all real.

It's why I have a problem with people claiming dreams are not real. Or thoughts are not real. or even so-called 'hallucinations'. What are they anyway, even if they are our own thought/mind creations? On some ('astral'?) level they are REAL, too. At least for me.

"True" and "not true" dreams?  What do they define as the difference? 
Sounds like a worse argument than the OBE community has over the different projection labels (obe, ld, ap, etc...).  LoL

Don't know exactly what it meant in detail because I had just read it superficially.

I am not a fan of Wiki but this description seems fitting anyway, so I quote it here:

"The gates of horn and ivory are a literary image used to distinguish true dreams (corresponding to factual occurrences) from false. The phrase originated in the Greek language, in which the word for "horn" is similar to that for "fulfil" and the word for "ivory" is similar to that for "deceive". On the basis of that play on words, true dreams are spoken of as coming through the gates of horn, false dreams as coming through those of ivory."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_of_horn_and_ivory

Any possible reason to be worried or concerned about doing this? Gates of Horn? Sounds like an oddly specific formulation. Probably a construct of someone, right? What was that person's intent? Good or bad? If there are indeed such great results, could there be any "adverse" effects?

Could it also be that the phrase doesn't matter at all and things happen only because you expect them to after you use the phrase?

It's based on Greek mythology (Odysee). Dreams of the Gates of Horn are 'true' dreams and of Ivory are not true it says.

I totally get what you are saying. And a couple of weeks ago, I would have agreed wholeheartedly. But now, I no longer consider atheists, at least some of them, to be trapped in mind boxes. I always thought their stance was without compromise, just like "there is no God, end of story, f**k off."

But now I can see that some take a very humble "I don't know" stance and, in case of Penn, for example, they can be very compassionate and full of empathy. I never imagined this would be true and now that I realized this, I feel they deserve credit for that, at least. Hence this topic.

They might refer to themselves as atheists but to me they are rather so-called 'agnostics'. It is a bit like a close-minded skeptic compared to an open-minded skeptic.

Most self-proclaimed atheists I know are die-hard materialists. But yes, for sure there are different kinds of them. It is just that the die-hard materialists shout the loudest most of the times. 

I've done quite some validations but I would not have needed them because I have a kind of intuitive 'knowingness' (which is not the same as knowledge).

The problem of this world is that most people are trapped in their mind boxes and there are two main boxes and for many or most people these are the only options that exist. It is also called a 'false dichotomy'. It is a kind of brainwash that society seems to have implanted into us now.

It is religionism vs. materialism/atheism/nihilism

Many here on the AP are beyond this, but we do not partake in the 'offical mainstream' narrative and discussions which is always about 'religionists' (christians, muslims, whatever) versus the 'atheist/materialist' (Dawkins type).

I personally yawn at this because I cannot relate to this. I guess many people on here at the Pulse feel a bit the same way.  

Regarding what exactly?

Welcome, Plume! (I was Sinera over there at EIC). 

meat with eggs is a good protein source so meat deniers (no, not you) should consider this as we "evolved" eating everything.

Of course I am for freedom for everyone to eat what they want, and yes, certainly we 'can' eat at least cooked meat, so from this viewpoint we are also carnivores and therefore omnivores.

I still think the 'good for evolution' argument is debatable imv. It is still often quoted this way from a 'science' view but seems outdated.

Newest discoveries showed that our ancestors were mainly on a plant-based diet (entirely or mainly herbivores) and only as exceptions did the hunting for meat. Also our digestive system and the chewing mechanism is more apt for plant- than meat-based eating and more similar to animals of this kind (herbivores). So it shows we rather 'evolved' as herbivores.

Also our nearest ones on Earth, the apes, are not really carnivores either. They eat also almost plant-based and always were, meat with a few insects are also the exception.

Here's one link I just found quickly: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/



Cannot find more links now, had a few studies, but I remember I read it here and there. Of course, opinions on this may differ, also among so-called experts.

(Btw. I do not believe in the strictly Darwinist theory evolution but this is a topic I do not want to debate any longer here or elsewhere   ).

It's good to see the EIC now finding a new home here.

I'd love to reach "The Park" one day. It is 'also' in Focus27, right?