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 71 
 on: December 08, 2017, 21:14:14 
Started by astralm - Last post by Lumaza
Direct / indirect classification might have its origins in Raduga's classification of phasing methods. Direct is phasing from the waking state, while indirect is phasing immediately after you woke, but haven't moved yet.

Lucid dreaming is a completely different approach.
I call any process that you are completely consciously aware during the process, direct. Lucid Dreaming would be the "indirect" way, because you are waking up to it, becoming aware after the fact.

 If you do the WBTB and lose your consciousness, click out and click back in, that's considered LDing in my books. If you attempt the WBTB and stay conscious all the way, experiencing the exit symptoms, signposts, etc., then that's a direct approach. It's pretty simple to classify.

 Although, either way, direct or indirect still leads to a "non physical/non local" state of consciousness.

 ...and yes, I definitely agree that not every "can" do it. Some people just can't let go of the physical. They can't jump the "fear test" hurdle. I have mentored many people and that was always their biggest hurdle, even though on the outside, they wanted it so badly.

 72 
 on: December 08, 2017, 21:01:26 
Started by astralm - Last post by Lumaza
I like listening and reading Buhlman. I had my first obe after I just finished reading his first book. Although somehow he doesn't seem to say something particularly different than others, he gives you confidence and comfort that it's doable. I also like his no-nonsense attitude. Even the fact that he doesn't shy from acknowledging that he can't have more than 1 obe per 10 days on average, and has longer no-obe spells, shows he's a great guy.
I like listening to and reading William as well. He really does have "no nonsense" approach and he shows his passion in his words.

 The only guy I found that showed more passion towards his practice, is Dr. Albert Taylor. Not a well known name in most Astral Travel circles. I listened to him on Coast to Coast AM. George Noory was starting in with some of his "fear porn", I call it, stating the evils and dangers of Astral Projection. Albert said "no, just no". He said, he has never experienced anything even close to what George was saying. George than spoke about good and evil or there. Once again, Albert said "no", not that he has seen and he has had thousands of NP experiences.
 Albert worked for NASA in the past as well. So he really had to watch his "p's and q's" when talking to his peers about his experiences.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6Xl9a7qMAY

 73 
 on: December 08, 2017, 18:49:29 
Started by astralm - Last post by baro-san
Direct / indirect classification might have its origins in Raduga's classification of phasing methods. Direct is phasing from the waking state, while indirect is phasing immediately after you woke, but haven't moved yet.

Lucid dreaming is a completely different approach.

 74 
 on: December 08, 2017, 18:45:29 
Started by astralm - Last post by baro-san
I like listening and reading Buhlman. I had my first obe after I just finished reading his first book. Although somehow he doesn't seem to say something particularly different than others, he gives you confidence and comfort that it's doable. I also like his no-nonsense attitude. Even the fact that he doesn't shy from acknowledging that he can't have more than 1 obe per 10 days on average, and has longer no-obe spells, shows he's a great guy.

 75 
 on: December 08, 2017, 18:37:11 
Started by astralm - Last post by baro-san
... What I mean is there is difference between saying not many people can play the piano or solve a calculus problem, and saying not many people can jump as high as Michael Jordan or even dunk a basketball.  Both are true statements with the difference being if you work hard and stay dedicated most people can learn to play the piano or do calculus.  No matter how hard you train most of us will never jump as high as Michael Jordan can.  ...

I strongly disagree! People have widely different intellectual, artistic, emotional, psychic capabilities, in the same measure as physical capabilities are different.

 76 
 on: December 08, 2017, 16:44:25 
Started by astralm - Last post by astralm
Thanks everyone for the replies, there are some great insights in there.  I can't say for sure what William means by direct vs indirect as they don't go into it but I would define as if you are conscious in PMR and end up in NPMR without a break in that consciousness that is direct.  If you lose consciousness and regain it in NPMR that would be indirect.  I have William's audible OBE course and read his first book.  His teaching style seems to be to do some sort of imagination of having an OBE (walking around your house looking and feeling objects of high importance to you for example) then holding this as you fall asleep which will eventually cause you to wake up in that location or your room "out of body".  So that I would say is clearly an indirect technique style.

Also I would like to just say I feel there is a difference between the statements many people can't do something and many people CAN'T do something.  What I mean is there is difference between saying not many people can play the piano or solve a calculus problem, and saying not many people can jump as high as Michael Jordan or even dunk a basketball.  Both are true statements with the difference being if you work hard and stay dedicated most people can learn to play the piano or do calculus.  No matter how hard you train most of us will never jump as high as Michael Jordan can.  Learning Direct techniques are something that many people can't do but that doesn't mean it is something that is outside of their ability to learn if they work at it and stay dedicated.

 77 
 on: December 08, 2017, 16:11:56 
Started by Selski - Last post by Selski
In an effort to return to dream journalling, I'm posting this today. Still getting lots & lots of varied and interesting experiences on a nightly basis and it would be a shame not to record them somewhere. So here it will be.  smiley

 78 
 on: December 08, 2017, 13:10:48 
Started by astralm - Last post by Xanth
Indirect = getting lucid in dream state?
I'd say yes.

Quote
Does WB2B method count as direct or indirect then?
I'd call that a direct method.

Quote
Sure, very few people can do it from waking state by meditation or focus shifting alone.
Totally agree with that.  Smiley

 79 
 on: December 08, 2017, 07:08:50 
Started by Lumaza - Last post by Lumaza
I have been trying out the focus challenge for a couple of weeks now. I think my longest run was around fifty five seconds. I learned that length of the run may not be important though, better twenty second runs have resulted in exit symptoms. The best runs seemed to involve a combination of a nearly forgotten background activity (the counting), and flow state engagement with a particular thought pattern or visualization.

Difficulties encountered include sudden and dramatic exit symptoms. From nothing to roller coaster style, so shocking that there is no chance to think. Inability to get into the flow or hold the focus is another problem. I am coming to understand this one might be significantly influenced by chemical imbalances in the brain.
If you are having exit symptoms that severe, then I would say you need to see them through. A "Rainbow" awaits on the other side of the Tidal Wave.  wink
 During my first intended conscious OBE, I could swear a Helicopter was going to land on my home and that there was a Earthquake occurring as well. If I didn't see it through, I wouldn't be here typing this right now. Fear tests are a major hurdle that are extremely important to overcome.

 It's all still progress though. Baby steps at first!  smiley

 80 
 on: December 08, 2017, 04:25:09 
Started by Lumaza - Last post by ThaomasOfGrey
I have been trying out the focus challenge for a couple of weeks now. I think my longest run was around fifty five seconds. I learned that length of the run may not be important though, better twenty second runs have resulted in exit symptoms. The best runs seemed to involve a combination of a nearly forgotten background activity (the counting), and flow state engagement with a particular thought pattern or visualization.

Difficulties encountered include sudden and dramatic exit symptoms. From nothing to roller coaster style, so shocking that there is no chance to think. Inability to get into the flow or hold the focus is another problem. I am coming to understand this one might be significantly influenced by chemical imbalances in the brain.

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